Tuesday, September 2nd, 2008
Can't We All Just Get Along?

I spent last weekend with some of my best friends in Las Vegas for a bachelor party. I’ve never had any desire to go there, and it’s pretty out of character for most of us to party like we did, but we had a good time, although I’m not sharing any details. My buddy who is getting married had testicular cancer last year and spent many months going through surgeries and treatments, and eventually came out of it fully recovered. So, we thought we’d do something of a once in a lifetime kind of way to honor all that he has gone through.
I’m completely exhausted. We slept for 3-4 hours a night at best and ended up spending the night on the floor in the Phoenix airport Sunday night due to a USAir screw up. They were kind enough to give us blankets that better resembled washcloths and tell us how sorry they were that they couldn’t care less about our troubles and wouldn’t stop to spit on us if we were dying in the street. I will never, ever, fly with them ever again.
Anyway, in my bleary eyed, exhausted state of mind, and separation from the outside world for a few days I’ve realized how low the political debate has gotten in this country. I was web surfing last night to see what had happened in the world in the last few days and came across some political blogs that resemble some of the recent ones on Humzoo. Not sure if anyone else noticed, but one that was there last night is totally gone along with the Humzooer, trippygolightly? I know that I have been party to name-calling and angry rants about the other side, but some of the comments I found last night on other sites were downright disgusting. I like to think that I wouldn’t type something that I wouldn’t say to someone’s face, which is designed to keep me from flying off the handle and blatantly insulting another person, but I probably deserve at least a few punches in the stomach for some of my comments.
As I perused these blog wastelands, I realized that almost all substance and real debate had been replaced with silly name-calling and hugely exaggerated ‘reports’ of the candidate on the other side. It’s easy to get sucked into the crap vortex of it all, but the truth is that it is almost all nitpick, buzzword infected garbage that only perpetuates the false idea that we are very different people with very different needs in life.
I read an interesting book last week called ‘The Great Derangement’, by Matt Taibbi, who is a Rolling Stone writer. Although he is a New England liberal and his politics are embedded in the book, the idea of it transcended politics and focused mostly on how insane some Americans have become. He spent time ‘undercover’ in John Hagee’s church in San Antonio, where people believe that the end of the world is near, and that Democrats want to force everyone to denounce God, live in public housing, and have mandatory abortions. They (and he) prayed for Scooter Libby and that the vengeance of God would fall upon his perpetrators.
On the flip side, he spent months with ultra left-wing 9/11 conspiracy theorists that blame George Bush and the Republicans for everything bad that has ever happened in the world and actually believe that 9/11 was an inside job.
These two groups are the same crazy people that essentially will fight to the death to preserve their absurd and perverted views on life. They just happen to sit on opposite sides of the fence. The scary thing is the large percentage of Americans that fall on one side or another of this extremism. He cited one poll that shows that 30% percent of Americans believe that the government was involved in or knew about the attack before it happened.


I am in dire need of common sense and sanity returning to how to talk about and implement politics in this country. I feel that our future is being stolen by delusional fringe groups that happen to shout a lot louder and much more frequently than average folks. I don’t really know how to find the middle ground sometimes. If I’m attacked, I’m inclined to fight back, and the more it happens, the nastier it gets. So, with that being said, I am resigning to the fact that I am not going to change your mind, and that you are likely not going to change mine. That doesn’t mean that we are morons, although some of us almost insist on proving that we are, and it doesn’t change the fact that most non-insane Americans basically want the same fundamental things in life, and want the freedom to choose their own path.
It really isn’t the end of the world either way, unless of course, the crazies are right.
24 Comments
nikideaton
1) RIGHT ON!
niki   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
courtneyheinzel
2) Perfectly written.
Courtney Heinzel   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
spike
3) :)
Spike   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
rangywulf
4) Well said!
RW   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
BrianHamrick
5) Amen! True story: I've actually had people leave my church for my public criticism of John Hagee. We agree, Matt!

I think we've got to take all the defensiveness out of our system, which we have to keep on doing. Then the attacks on us don't provoke us so bad, and frankly, will lead open-minded/realistic opponents to respect us.

We can disagree without being disagreeable.
Brian   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
nheinzel
6) Matt for President!
!   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
dazedpink
7) Matt, I've been wanting to write something like that for days...no way I could have written as eloquently as you though.
Jules   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
reera
8) Proud of you!
dannie   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
ChinaCalling
9) You make so much sense! I think you did a great job of summing up the real problem that will lead to the real end of the world.
ChinaCalling   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
mrsshoo
10) I actually know trippygolightly from real life, and she's a very nice woman. I've read your comments on other blogs, so I was a bit surprised by the nastiness of your comment on her blog. It didn't contribute to the discussion, and was a bit rude. After the comment on her blog, I'm a bit surprised that you authored this particular post. Maybe I'm just taking your comment out of context because of the internets and the lack of intonation and such, which makes it difficult to interpret typed comments; however, if I took it the wrong way, I'm sure she could've too.
I think most people have been guilty of taking advantage of the anonymity of the internets and not thinking about what they're saying/who they're saying it to. It's just sad for me to see her go, as I enjoyed her blogs and liked her pictures.
Sarah S.   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
justmeg
11) Great - so now I am just finding out that trippygolightly is gone - just great - I really identified with her because we live such similar lives juddling a husband's wacky schedule and kids at the same time.
justmeg   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
spike
12) I didn't intend to be mean, but she even commented that she didn't know that much about it. I don't claim to be a sensitive person, and admitted in this blog to being a dick sometimes.
I do believe in calling people out when they are dishonest or try to get a rise out of someone, and my sarcasm is often taken too seriously, so I'm sorry if I really upset her, but I didn't intend for it to be that harsh and thought it was actually one of the lighter comments posted there.

*mattpike posting on Sarah's computer*
Spike   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
mrsshoo
13) Like I said, I think the impersonal typing of the internet makes most comments seem harsher than they're meant to be. I'm not one to censor myself either (unless my husband is reading over my shoulder shaking his head--which he does quite frequently). The other comments were rude, but they were directed more at the topic than at the person.
I also think most people have been guilty of "attacking" the person instead of the topic, as the internet makes it very easy to forget that you're responding to actual people and not just a computer screen.
Like I said (again), I was surprised it was you, as typically when you respond it is insightful and thought-provoking. You share your opinion honestly, but stick to the subject at hand.

I know Mr. Shoo has to remind me sometimes not to take things so personally because the internet really isn't a personal place. And I'm glad to know that you didn't intend to be mean.

I'm going to go read Chinacalling and look at Linda's baked goods now, as I don't know that I can take anymore heavy topics or political discussions.
Sarah S.   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
lgrant
14) There have been some heavy discussions lately and some strong words used. Whether meant as hard as they sounded--once written or spoken, not easily retrievable or softened. I can get intense myself but I hope I never go as far as to be mean and if I do--that someone tells me to stop it. I hope that China's beautiful photos and a few of my recipes help ease some of the weight and angst. :) If I have a hand in that--my baking has accomplished what I always want. Making someone feel better or special for that day. :)
LGrant   Tuesday, September 2, 2008
15) "As I perused these blog wastelands, I realized that almost all substance and real debate had been replaced with silly name-calling and hugely exaggerated ‘reports’ of the candidate on the other side. It’s easy to get sucked into the crap vortex of it all, "

As someone told me before, I never knew there were so many idiots in the world until I got on the internet.
talkswithstrangers   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
16) I didn't know anyone had been offended enough to leave. That's too bad!
Pam   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
willnbek
17) I quit talking politics a long time ago. My dad is in politics and the media portrayed him as someone I did not recognize, completely made him out as a horrible person. Best Dad and politician in the world by the way. So I quit looking at the "person" running and just vote for the party that represents my philosophy the best. You could say I vote a straight ticket. The few times I vote outside of my party is because I actually KNOW the person and respect him/her. So, no more political debates for me, if everybody believed the same it would be a very boring world. May the best "campaign" win
-bek
WillnBek.com   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
RickMonday
18) I really dont think that anyone wants to offend or hurt someone else. I know I dont. I also know that sometimes things do get heated and people, including me, write some things off the cuff that maybe we are not too proud of, but I never mean it to be a personal attack on someone. I think everyone wants to say or do the right thing.

But what is the reason for this bantering. Cant we all just get along? Well yes we can get along, but I dont think that one should abondon ones views, though they may not be popular, unless someone else can convince us in a reaonable way, that a particular view has weaknesses.

Lets take abortion. I honestly believe that life begins at conception. Others dont and I think they are being honest too. So, how can we debate that issue. It is cut and dry. I cant convince you that life begins at conception and you cant convince me that it doesnt. We can find middle ground though, maybe, on some extreme cases like late term abortions or family planning techniques.

What about the economy. This is a very complex issue but there might be ground for reasonable debate because we have hard numbers to back up our arguments.

There are other areas that I think reasonable people can debate and influence each other. These topics include:

Energy
Schools
The UN
Military
Health Care
Sports
Music
etc.

You know what would be awesome but will never happen? To have the presidential candidates discuss issues like Lincoln and Douglas did. Each gave very long, well thought out written arguments on slavery, the economy, etc. And the American people comprehended it. I dont think Americans are able to digest that type of debate today. I mean if a guy has 3 minutes to respond to a question about the economy the only thing they can do is to provide high level buzz words and themes.
RickMonday   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
willnbek
19) And they spout out numbers to impress voters that they know specific amounts.
Rick, when I used to debate politically verbally (know I just read and listen), I would first always see the other side of arguments and understand why they felt the way they felt. I am surrounded by intelligent, rational people (humzoo, family, friends) that have different views than me, so they have to be onto something. I usually learn something new and gain perspective when I listen and think about other views. But my husband on the other hand is a little more out spoken and more stubborn. Love you Will:)
-bek
WillnBek.com   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
RickMonday
20) bek,

Believe it or not I am open to changing my views. I think I have strong reasons for why I believe the things that I do but I am open to reason. For example, I grew up going to catholic schools through high school, and yet, I dont deny evolution. Any logical person can see that there is some type of evolution going on. And they can see that the earth is more than 6000 years old. To deny it just shows a closed mind.

However, I still believe in one God, after all some higher power had to cause the Big Bang. Who put the gasses here that fueled the big bang?

Changing topics, Atlas Shrugged is getting good. I am at the point where Francisco Anaconda is causing a crash in his stock. Dangy's cigarette vendor told her that the cigarette she showed him was not made by any machine on this earth and she is still trying to find the inventor of the motor. Where have all the other industrialists fled too? There are so many lessons contained in this book, I am surprised that I was never forced to read it in high school or college.
RickMonday   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
willnbek
21) It only gets better! And didn't you know, college professors are way to liberal to force, much less recommend this book. oops, there I go. Just kidding everyone. Joking!!!!! Although my art professor hated when I listened to Rush while in the art studio, but he still gave me an A.
Evolution and God, man, that'll get ya thinking. I've decided my brain can't comprehend the true story behind creation. I've tried.
-bek
WillnBek.com   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
mattpike
22) Rick, I said that I found some offensive comments on other sites that are solely focused on politics. I don't think there are many on Humzoo, and if there are, they're usually from you or me, but I don't get insulted easily, so I don't mind.

These are some examples:

Great post again, John! Keep shining the light on these trustfund cockroaches.
Well larded bank accounts act like air-fresheners for these hypocrites and make liitle diiference to the very institutions they purport to oppose.

A much better known moronic blogger Instapundit tries the same crap all the time. "X is somehow related to Y and said/did something bad" and "Y should state that X is unequivocally bad". It doesn't matter that he only does this for Democrats or liberals, its just pathetic line of reasoning and shows the intellectual shallowness of the remaining floaters in the conservative commode.

Actually, the comments are pretty poetic and kind of hilarious, but it only causes people to be more angry and separated. There are literally millions of these kinds of discussions out there. No one ever says anything. They just beat each other up, and therefore, never make any positive impact.
mattpike   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
RickMonday
23) Matt,

I actually get on some other sites too. I am worn out arguing about McCain and/or Obama.

Unless something new comes out of course!!! :)

There is nothing wrong with arguing. My wife says that I like it too much. I have been trying to keep the unnecessary personal jabs out of my rants. Really, what good do they do. ....but they sure make you feel better for that one instant that you push send........
RickMonday   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
24) Matt and everyone who commented on my blog...no worries. I deleted the blog first without reading the last 10 or so comments and did it to save everyone's sanity and mine also.
I will be on humzoo, but only as a comment-er. I love all of your guys' blogs and think it's fun to read your experiences and thoughts.
The one that stands out is Mrs. Shoo's ankle incident and some other person's shart incident. They crack me up!
Take care everyone
Nicole
Nicole a.k.a. Trippygolightly   Wednesday, September 3, 2008
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