1) I don't like the ones you mentioned. My kids never get flu shots either. Natalie actually had influenza as a baby, but she recovered. If I had a preemie or a child with health problems I might think differently, but all my kids were full-term, healthy infants.

2) Really? We went from 7 to over 27? That seems whack to me. Keep doing your research and please share what ever you find out.

3) I'm not too worried about it. My kid has gotten all of the vaccines so far and she will be 17 months this week. She's never gotten sick from one or had any adverse reactions. I think a lot of the problems occurred where children were being vaccinated off schedule, for example, their parents didn't take them in to the doctor until late or too early to get the shots, then they end up "doubling up" just because they need the kid vaccinated for school or daycare. I am pretty anal about taking Brennan to the doctor right when she is due for the shots. I don't have any resources to cite on this, I'm purely going on what I remember reading.

4) I have read and listened to programs about the topic. One piece of advise that I thought made sense was to spread them out-ask your Dr. not to give so many at once. All the studies say that vaccinations don't cause autism but something in our environment has to be contributing to it. I think you are being a wise and cautious Mom to be at least asking questions. One thing to keep in mind, as a teacher you will be exposed to a lot of stuff. You have built up immunities and hopefully, by breast feeding you will be passing on those immunities to Driggs. Also promoting frequent hand washing and coughing into your arm, rather than covering your mouth with your hands are things as a teacher, you can do to protect yourself as well as the-kids. When the twins were born my daughter-in-law had Davis wash his hands as soon as he came in the house. Good old fashion soap and water is preferable to those bottled hand wash but if I was a teacher I would have them all over the room with big signs about hand washing. When the hospital started putting dispensers in the hallways and rooms they did see a decrease in infections. There are some vaccines that I believe are essential. As of this year I believe there are reall only two countires left with polio, I think we need to continue to be vigilant becasue it would be a terrible tragedy to have a resurgance of that diesease. I believe you are taking the right approach and will do what is best for your litle guy.

5) I will have to email you stuff that my friend Angie sends me. She is an Occupational Therapist and works with children with Autism. I think it is a very scary thing. I have spoken to Dylan's doctor and she has had all of her shots on schedule, unless they were out of one (there have been shortages of the HIB). She is required to get vaccinated for daycare, so we don't have much of a choice. Luckily, she has done fine with all of them. She got a flu shot last year and will have one this year. Daycare is a place full of germs and she has had her fair share of illnesses (I do think it makes them stronger), including ear tubes from all of her ear infections. You have to do what is right for you. I am no expert but I think it may be a combination of genetics and the metals in the shots. I have some friends that are not concerned and some that is all they think about. I myself never get a flu shot, but got one last year because Denny and I were picking up the daycare germs. I mean I got mono at age 29, and according to my doctor that is rare. Just no fun being really sick and trying to breastfeed.

6) Lilly had all the vaccines except rotovirus (wasn't offered when she was a baby) and other than a mild fever and some crankiness the day of the shots, she was always fine. I do understand your concerns though and I will do things differently with our next child...he/she will still get all of the vaccines but I'll be spacing them out...I'd rather go to the ped. 3 times in 3 weeks and pay the $20 co pay 3 times than have all 3 shots given at once.

About the chicken pox vaccine...I never had it as a kid. I was vaccinated after Lilly was born and had a mild reaction to it, but nothing major. Lilly had 2 doses of the shot with no reaction...I know she could still get it but her case should be milder if she does. Getting the pox as an adult can lead to major complications which is why I ended up getting it.

7) I'm not mother, but believe it or not, I've talked about this with Troy. Specifically chicken pox (because I had NO idea that they had 27 now!). I want my children to get chicken pox and the flu antibodies the good old fashion way - I do think it really strengthens their immune systems (not to mention the viruses will mutate around the vaccines and that would be worse). I also try to avoid antibiotics for myself because I don't want to build up a tolerance to antibiotics and pass that onto my kids. I would like my children to get the same 7 vaccines I got. I mean, we all got only 7 and we're fine...right?! In fact, better because autism didn't exist back then like it does now.

I can't believe doctors are loading up babies with antibodies and metals...and that daycare, schools and colleges are requiring them. At grad school I saw a freshman go in for a chicken pox vaccine - it was required or he would be sent home. I think that's ludicrous! I can understand MMR and polio and vaccines like that, but what are the chances chicken pox are gonna kill you...we were built to fight it off, ya know?

I am interested to know what else you learn. Please keep posting :)

8) Niki, I was thinking of getting the flu vaccine just so I would not bring it home to Driggs.
I am just really nervous over vaccines for some reason. I have several friends who do not vaccinate. I want to protect Driggs from serious illness so I will vaccinate against the more serious ones. I just need advice and different opinions, experiences from Moms.

-bek

9) Day cares require vaccinations simply for liability reasons. It makes sense considering what could be involved if someone's child got sick or died even and it was picked up at day care.

Luckily our pediatrician is very practical. He is actually the same pediatrician I had, and my brother had. He is cautious to jump on the vaccination bandwagon and only suggests that we get what is absolutely necessary for Dylan.

10) Hayley, I am still learning and reading. I picked up literature yesterday at a health fare that mentioned the 27 vaccines. Although when I count Driggs', that number seems to high. More like 18 or 20. Still a big jump. I just think being knowledgeable is really important. Good that you are already thinking about it.

-bek

11) Jules,
I have created a schedule where Driggs gets two shots each month. Pairing a high aluminum shot with a low or aluminum free shot.

12) Excellent

13) Hayley,

Regarding chicken pox vaccines: I have studied this in depth because my child is highly allergic to eggs and chicken pox vaccines have an egg base to them so we did not get him that particular vaccine.

Last year he got the chicken pox and is now immune to them for life. Kids who get the vaccines have a good chance of getting chicken pox when they are much older. Chicken pox in the elderly can definitely be a killer.

14) My husband (Pastafarian) did quite a bit of research on the subject of vaccines before Galvin was born and has since Gwendolyn arrived, and I trust his judgment immensely. The one thing I have been adamant about in the vaccination arena is scheduling; my children NEVER have all the vaccines administered in the same day. In my opinion, this is the dumbest idea ever concocted by physicians. I mean, if the baby/child has a reaction, who's to know which one caused it if they're shooting them with three syringes containing three different vaccines EACH?! Therefore, we take our children every Friday--or every other Friday, if the reaction time is 7-10 days--to have a shot. This way, we can watch for signs of trouble adequately, and our kids have a more personal relationship with their pediatrician and her staff.

Also, my children take daily multivitamins and supplements from Mannatech. Now, I know that there are less expensive alternatives, but my mother is a rep so we get ours at a discount. Do they work? Who knows, but I do know that my children are ill less often than friends, cousins, daycare kids, etc. --Galvin has had two ear infections, three colds and influenza (got this from daddy) once since he was born--he was three years old this past June--and Gwendolyn has had one ear infection and two colds since birth (7/6/07), as well as a couple viral sore throats caused from sinus drainage during her colds. In comparison, their cousin, Carson, who was two years old in August, has had four ear infections, 11 colds and the flu three times in his life thus far. Oh, and he also receives a flu shot each year. Of course, his older brother, Landon, has been sick so often that we can't keep track anymore.

Anyway, good luck with your vaccine decisions, Bek, and stick to your guns, girl!!

15) PS. I'm agreeing with RickMonday. Again.

16) I feel this is a really serious problem. My sister is currently dealing with some major challenges regarding this issue. Her middle child, after receiving 5 immunizations in one day @ 18 mos (he was sick during his 15 mo. visit so they postponed), began regressing in terms of language development and has maintained an exceptionally small vocabulary to this day.

He has recently been tested by a doctor of environmental medicine and found to have neurological disorders significant enough to be considered on the autism spectrum. My sister & her husband, after much research, testing and many trips to various specialists are currently working with this doctor whose practice focuses on detoxing children who have developed autism via immunizations. This doctor's own children developed autism following immuniztions and she was subsequently kicked out of the AMA for not following the party line and basically because she was too "noisy" about citing the connection her experience & research demonstrated between the two.

Her program focuses on educating parents, about the dangers of immunizations en masse, detoxing children of the heavy metals contained in these "medicines," along with numerous other services geared toward supporting the healing and development of affected children.

Of course, services such as these serve as little comfort to parents currently in the decision-making process of whether/when/how much, etc, but it is encouraging to know there are such folks out there. I don't know her name, etc. but will be happy to forward any info she might have on her website, etc.

One other person who's written thoughtfully about this is Christiane Northrup. A 30-yr veteran OBGYN & alternative health guru, Dr. Northrup, I feel, offers advice that can be trusted, given that she has feet on both sides of the healthcare fence. Her book, Mother-Daughter Wisdom devotes a chapter to this issue. Below is a link to some of her commentary on flu vaccines. There you'll find a link to the above-mentioned book.

It's a very difficult position for parents - wanting to do their due diligence to keep their children safe and healthy but not always knowing whose "expert" advice to follow. There's a lot of fear mongering on both sides. I do hope people will continue to challenge the medical community's party line ("There is NO link between immunizations & autism"), and realize that so much of what we are fed in our doctors' offices is the same bull that's been fed to them by pharmaceutical salespeople.

http://www.doctorline.com/birdflu.htm

17) Bek - I cannot blame you at all for being concerned - I will share my story about the chicken pox vaccine and why it is overrated and fails to work.

When Jessica (my 15 year old) was young - she got the chicken pox naturally - this was when the vaccine was optional and not required by schools and daycares.
Just 5 years later it was required - so Sarah (my 11 year old) got vaccinated. Then she came down with a full blown case of the chicken pox when she was 6 years old AND again when she was 9 years old.

Needless to say - I don't hold alot of faith in that shot or in the old thing of "you can only get it once"

18) Hayley - regarding your comment # 7 - you realize that getting the flu each year does not guarantee that you will not get the flue the following year? The flue strain is different each year - that is why you have to get a shot each year for it. It is actually developed based on what strain they PREDICT will be the most prevalent that year.

19) I hope this blog stays open for awhile as it has brought a lot of good information. I would like to have the website for the physician mentioned
in Alyson's reply.

20) And often, Meg, they don't predict that correctly.

21) We vaccinated with our first and some with the 2nd. Then we researched and decided against vaccinations for the other two and one on the way. Many reasons but mostly the ingredients that I don't want injected into my children.

One thing I found interesting during research is that at the time when vaccines were becoming popular and lots of diseases were starting to dissapear, the water system in the US changed dramatically. Our water got much cleaner and the spread of disease stopped as well. Other countries have access to vaccines, yet the diseases still run rampant. They don't have clean water. I thought that was interesting.

Another problem is that the testing of vaccines and long term effects just can't be accurate. They can't test on humans, only on animals. Remember the polio vaccine that actually gave children polio? OOOPs-BIG mistake. Who's to say that wont happen again? There's no way to know for sure and until there is I'll make a choice to stay away from vaccines.

We switched pediatricians because our other one told us that everything we read about bad reactions to vaccines was a myth. There's too much evidence and too many online support groups for moms of children who had noticeable changes after being vaccinated. Just my 2 cents.

22) Rick, I don't understand the chicken pox vaccine. Kids can deal with it (maybe easier than adults) - my aunt was pregnant with my cousin (now 17) when she got the chicken pox. Both mother and baby were fine, but doctors weren't sure that would be the case. Children can handle chicken pox. So I don't understand why they are requiring the vaccine since it's so much more dangerous to get it when you're older...and much older. Plus, apparently it doesn't work - and possibly makes kids susceptible to multiple outbreaks, as seem the case with Sarah (above).

Also, a frightening thought could be that Sarah was vaccinated for one strain and due to the vaccine, the chicken pox virus is mutating it's way around the vaccine. That, too, could be deadly if it mutates into a stronger strain.

Pharmaceutical sales/drug companies are just too powerful nowadays.

23) Meg, Yes, I know the flu changes. But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? I think it's important for kids to get sick so they can be strong and healthy adults. If we prevent our kids from always getting sick, what will they have to protect themselves from new or different illnesses as they get older? In order to develop antibodies, we need to have the virus/bacteria in our systems.

If these kids that don't develop as many antibodies then produce offspring and those offspring get the lack of antibodies from their parent(s), then they get vaccinated, so on and so forth till the human immune system is almost non-existent and only consists of forced-fed disease and antibodies - one new illness can kill us (them) all. It's a little I Am Legend, but I don't think it's that far fetched.

24) Hayley, the flu kills countless numbers of children each year. Last year something like 20 children died in Iowa alone from the flu. Not a chance I'm willing to take with Lilly.

25) Jules, Is that an influx of children dying from the flu? I'm worried it will just get stronger to curve around the vaccine. Isn't there a chance teh shot can give you the flu?

Obviously, I haven't really done much research on childrens' vaccines, so what I've said is entirely my own personal opinion. Although my interest in this subject is ever-increasing.

26) No sex or drugs? Your baby sounds like a square, man.

27) Hayley, this is taken directly from the CDC's website:

The Danger of Flu to Children
Flu is more dangerous than the common cold for children. Each year, flu places a large burden on the health and well-being of children and families.

Children commonly need medical care because of influenza, especially before they turn 5 years old.
Each year an average of 20,000 children under the age of 5 are hospitalized because of influenza complications.
Some children will die from the flu each year. During the 2007-08 flu season, CDC received reports that 86 children died from influenza-related complications.
Severe influenza complications are most common in children younger than 2 years old.
Children with chronic health problems like asthma and diabetes are at especially high risk of developing serious flu complications.

As for the shot giving you the flu...not likely. The shot is a dead form of the virus (I believe the nasal spray is a live form of the virus) which causes your body to build up antibodies in case you are exposed to that strain of flu. If you do end up getting the flu (like another strain), your symptoms should be milder and less serious than if you didn't get the shot.

The vaccination debate can be a heated one. I think it's smart for all parents (or parents to be) to do their research and to be as informed as they can be...parents have to advocate for what they feel is best for their children.

28) CDC reports a lot of statistics but only the ones that make vaccines look like your best option. I'd like to see the stats on complications after vaccines. There doesn't seem to be another side to the story on their website. Even when your doctor gives you the form with the info on vaccines it lists the possible side effects which to me are terrifying to read.

29) I was wrong about testing on humans, apparantly they do but it looks to be adults only. From the CDC website;

"When the vaccine completes these laboratory tests successfully, the FDA allows it to be tested on people during "clinical trials." People who participate in a clinical trial understand the risks. They choose to get the vaccine and be tested to find out if the vaccine is safe and effective.

If the clinical trials show the vaccine works safely, the manufacturer asks the FDA for a license. The FDA reviews the clinical trial results and the proposed label for the vaccine."

30) Also for those who have schools who require them, you are able to get a waiver if you are against immunizations. That goes for daycares too.

31) how do you get a waiver?

32) Hayley you'll have to look at your state's guidelines when the time comes. Some states make it easier than others, and I believe there are no national laws/standards. It could even vary by school district, though I'm not sure on that. I'm almost positive that private schools (most if not all) require vaccines, though public schools are more lenient.

33) My husband got really sick after receiving his flu shot a couple of years ago. Then he got influenza twice that year! Very annoying. Since my kids don't have compromized immune systems, we don't get the shots, although with Nats in school now we'll discuss the issue again.

I'm all for a spaced out immunization schedule. I do think that immunizations against polio, diptheria, etc are importnant so my kids get all those.

Kaydee, really interesting research.

34) Pam, My husband got real sick after getting the flu vaccine too. It turned into pneumonia and we ended up in the ER. Neither of us get it now and I don't think we have had the flu since :)

35) Both my children have been vaccinated. I understand the concerns about them and I hope that there will be continued research to help everyone make an edcuated decision on what to choose. My only issue is that I feel like there is so much concern/backlash wth vaccines and the possible link to autism spectrum disorders that there isn't much focus on other thngs in our life that could be the possible cause as well. The increased use of plastics (eating out of, microwaving your food in), drinking soda out of cans, consumption of canned goods, cleaning solutions, animals injected antibiotics and growth hormones, fertilizers, pollution, laundry detergent, perfumes, food additives, etc just to name a few. How do we not know any of above mentioned items aren't causing the problem?

36) Carrie, I think someone mentioned earlier that mothers would notice a marked difference in their (now autistic) child's behavior shortly after vaccinations.

37) Good point Carrie.

38) Hayley,
It may happen, but it's not common. Whose to say the things I mentioned weren't the "cause" then the medicine in the vaccine is the "last straw"... It's still very difficult to pinpoint still.

39) Hayley,
Several factors have played into the increased diagnosis of autism. At around 14 months or so autistic children seem to lose certain social and language skills. This age coincides with the largest number of vaccinations that kids have to get in one sitting. In addition, the change in diagnostic criteria was immediately followed by a huge increase in the number of cases diagnosed. I am completely open to the prospect that autism and vaccinations could be tied, but until proof appears in a reputable unbiased medical journal, I would be loathe to hastily draw conclusions. Of course, when it's your own kids, I think all bets are off and you have to do what's you feel will keep them safe.

40) I like your point Carrie about all the other things which can be responsible for the decline of our health. Scary stuff.

41) As a sister of a now-teenager with autism, I've been involved with a lot of Autism Awareness groups, and heard both sides of the vaccine debate from many highly educated individuals. The fact remains, however, that the risks of NOT vaccinating are incredibly higher than the theoretical risks of protecting your child from these diseases.

The US has all but eliminated diseases such as measles and mumps that used to take many lives- think about the infant mortality rate 100 years ago. The medical advancements of immunization are for our benefit, and should be capitalized upon. When parents choose not to vaccinate, they are opening the doors for these eradicated diseases to make their way back into society, affecting those children who, for some reason, cannot be vaccinated (allergies, etc.)

As for the link between vaccines and autism- think age. When do you get vaccinated for the second round? Around age two or three- when the signs of autism start showing up anyway.

Chicken pox and the flu are incredibly dangerous for babies- building immunity is great, but is better left until after a simple infection can turn deadly. During the school-age years, chicken pox won't be a problem- but if Driggs got them next week....

Statistics can prove anything, and the internet serves as a place where all sorts of unverified facts can thrive. Be careful what you believe.

For an amusing example of statistics proving everything:

http://user.pa.net/~nrwing/whataguy/banbread/

42) http://poisonevercure.150m.com/vaccines2.htm

This has some really interesting info and the other links seem to have good info on vaccines too. It's interesting on the history of the smallpox vaccine.

43) I think it is great that people evaluate what they do and don't want to do with respect to vax. What bothers me is people who swear them all off automatically. *ALL* vaccines are not evil. I would never take the chance that my child would get polio, for instance. I'm not saying anyone here does this, but I know people who have. And it is frustrating to me.

44) Bek, I emailed you some stuff from my friend Angie. Let me know if you don't get it (not sure I still have your correct email address). She just went to a briefing in DC on the subject. Maybe she will write a blog, she is more of the expert in this area.

45) MKL, Chickenpox vaccine is not until 1 year, so you can't protect them until them anyway.
-bek

46) I feel very strongly about this issue and decided to go ahead and write a few blogs on my site. I think the most important thing is to make yourself extremely educated about the issue before you make any decisions. As you look at the actual research studies that are being done, you'll find that there are loopholes and under-studied populations, and still the blanket statements that 'there is no correlation between vaccines and autism'. I am not ready to settle with that generalization. Premature babies have not been studied among other populations; we have no idea what other vulnerabilities some of these children already had that did not allow their immune system to work properly for them, etc. We have a years of research ahead of us before we will know for sure. I don't think we should nix vaccines all together, but trying an alternative schedule and then being responsible about exposure is fair enough at this point.

47) I didn't realize the number of vaccines have grown that much in the last number of years!! I am also torn about what to do regarding my child's immunizations. BTW...is there one for colic? Just kidding...Jack has been very fussy the past 15+ hours.
In the past 5 years or so I have kept a mental note of students I have taught or come across in my teaching career. Yes, most see signs of autism after the second boosters...but there are signs earlier that are not really noticed because of age and development. For example: Notice if your 6-month old is reacting to facial expressions. There are other early signs. Another thing I have noticed is autism is more frequent in boys. Also...if there were a strong coorilation between vaccines and autism then we would see it more often and equally among the sexes. I am not saying there is none. Spacing of the immunizations, gender, genetics (yes, I relize gender is genetic), environmental factors (mentioned in a post above) all can play a role in development of many things. Heavy metals in vaccines, water, foods, homes, have been linked to ADD and ADHD. I just think we should all try to get back to natural things, and not so processed items while dong the bast we can for our families. We all must do what we think is best...just my opinion and observations.
I key this with one hand while my son screams in the other. This is a perfect example of processed vs. natural. I was not able to nurse (many factors why) and he gets fussy with formula. It does not digest as well and he always get air when using "venting" bottles. This makes for an upset belly and therefor an upset baby.

48) I haven't read all the responses and I may be repeating something already said but I've always heard to take you babies to the Health Department to get shots because the turn over was high and the likelyhood of vaccines sitting on the "shelf" getting old was slim... some think the age of the vaccine before injection is the reason for the autism... ???

49) Also, I agree with Matt&Robyn... there are so many factors environmentally that have been linked to so many things... God will take care of you and your baby Driggs... do your research, do what you feel is best and He will take care of the rest... it will be ok.

50) BEK N WILL, ASK YOUR BROTHER, DR. LITTLEJOHN..................SURELY HE WOULD NOW STEER YOU WRONG.................AFTER ALL, THIS IS HIS NEPHEW....................